Investigative journalist Nick Shirley traveled to the United States Treasury building in Washington, D.C., to sit down with Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessent for an exclusive interview focused on what Shirley describes as a staggering fraud crisis draining the American taxpayer. The interview, published on April 10, 2026, marks what Shirley characterizes as a significant moment in his ongoing reporting on government waste, fraud, and abuse — a beat he has pursued extensively, including on the ground in Minneapolis and St. Paul, Minnesota.
Setting the scene outside the Treasury building, Shirley states that the institution functions as essentially the financial hub of the federal government, noting that ‘over $6 trillion essentially leaves this building each and every single year.’ It is against this backdrop that Shirley pressed Secretary Bessent on what the administration is allegedly doing differently to combat fraud that, according to Bessent, was allowed to flourish under previous leadership.
According to Shirley’s reporting, Bessent alleged that between $250 billion and $500 billion is lost annually to waste, fraud, and abuse — a figure he described as roughly 10% of the total federal budget, and approximately 2% of U.S. GDP. Shirley directly asked Bessent whether it was fair to characterize the past four years as a period when Americans were ‘getting looted from fraudsters,’ to which Bessent reportedly responded, ‘That’s 100% accurate.’
Central to the interview is the Treasury’s alleged new approach to combating fraud. Bessent described a so-called ‘do not pay’ system, which he claimed will allow the Treasury to follow federal money across agencies including HHS and HUD, flagging unusual payments before they leave the government’s hands. Bessent reportedly stated that the key philosophy is prevention rather than recovery, explaining that ‘once you try to call it back, that’s very difficult.’ Shirley reports that Bessent also described the use of Suspicious Activity Reports, or SARs, collected from banks through the Financial Crimes Enforcement Network, known as FinCEN, and that these reports are allegedly being cross-referenced with unusual payment data — a method Bessent claimed had already been piloted in Minneapolis.
Shirley also pressed Bessent on the issue of political accountability, asking what it says about local and state governments that refuse to make financial information public. Bessent reportedly responded that such opacity suggests ’there’s likely a daisy chain there… political patronage or political coverups,’ and that officials who enable fraud are ‘breaking your vow to the people.’
Drawing on his own boots-on-the-ground reporting in Minnesota, Shirley referenced alleged fraud in daycare and learning center operations, where he claims fraudsters were allegedly obtaining between $1 million and $6 million from federal block grants passed through state governments. Shirley notes that prior to the current administration’s efforts, federal prosecutors allegedly did not pursue fraud cases under approximately $1.5 million, a threshold that Bessent confirmed fraudsters were reportedly aware of and deliberately exploited. Bessent stated the administration is now going directly to auto dealers and requesting financial records from their finance subsidiaries, asking, ‘If you’re receiving public assistance, how do you have a Mercedes? How do you have a BMW?’
On the question of whistleblowing, Shirley reports that Bessent announced a new program at treasury.gov allowing citizens to report fraud and potentially earn a bounty of 10% to 30% of any money the Treasury recovers — with Bessent emphasizing that the reward ’nothing comes out of the pockets of the American taxpayer.’ According to Shirley, Bessent confirmed the program had already received more than 700 tips at the time of the interview.
Shirley also raised the issue of what he described as lenient sentencing, referencing the Feeding Our Future case in Minnesota, where he alleged a fraudster received only one year of prison time. Bessent reportedly acknowledged that ‘sentencing guidelines have been very lax’ and pointed to IRS Criminal Investigations as a tool to build stronger cases going forward.
The interview concludes with Shirley reflecting on the broader message of citizen journalism, stating that the work of one person — referencing a source he identifies only as ‘David’ in Minnesota — helped create ‘change here inside the government.’ Bessent, for his part, reportedly called on citizens across the political spectrum to demand transparency from their elected officials, saying, ‘Every citizen — the far left, far right, right down the middle — should demand transparency.’
The alleged scope of the fraud crisis described in this interview — potentially $500 billion annually — represents what Shirley characterizes as a systemic failure of government accountability that allegedly spanned years and touched communities from Minneapolis to New York City to Los Angeles.
Key Facts — All Alleged
| |
|---|
| Who | Secretary of the Treasury Scott Bessent; Nick Shirley; Bobby Kennedy (referenced); ‘David’ in Minnesota (referenced) |
| Amount | $250 billion to $500 billion allegedly lost annually to waste, fraud, and abuse |
| Location | Washington, D.C. (Treasury building); Minneapolis, St. Paul, Minnesota; New York City; Los Angeles |
| Program | HHS block grants, HUD payments, do not pay system, FinCEN Suspicious Activity Reports (SARs), Treasury whistleblower program |
| Status | Under Investigation |
In Nick Shirley’s Words
“Today we’re here at the Treasury of the United States. It’s essentially the Bank of America as over $6 trillion essentially leaves this building each and every single year.”
— Nick Shirley
“We think it could be $250 to $500 billion. So roughly 10% of the total federal budget.”
— Nick Shirley
“If you’re receiving public assistance, how do you have a Mercedes? How do you have a BMW? So we will track that down.”
— Nick Shirley
“Is it fair to say that for the past four years, we were getting looted from fraudsters as there wasn’t really any guard rails to stop the fraud?”
— Nick Shirley
“I do feel grateful that due to some of the work that one person in David for instance in Minnesota is able to do along my side we actually have been able to create change here inside the government which I think is a broader message to people here in the United States that you can make a difference for the country.”
— Nick Shirley
Take Action
Contact your representative about government waste and taxpayer fraud fraud in your state.
American taxpayers deserve accountability. If this investigation concerns you, make your voice heard.
Sample Letter to Your Representative
Dear [Representative Name],
I am writing as a concerned taxpayer regarding alleged government waste and taxpayer fraud fraud in your state. Recent independent investigations have brought to light troubling patterns of waste and abuse involving taxpayer-funded programs.
I urge your office to:
- Investigate the allegations of government waste and taxpayer fraud fraud documented in this and related reports
- Support stronger oversight and accountability measures for federal and state funding
- Ensure that taxpayer dollars are protected from fraud, waste, and abuse
- Provide transparency on how these programs are being monitored
Our tax dollars should serve their intended purpose — not line the pockets of bad actors. I look forward to your response and action on this matter.
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
Find Your Representative | Find Your Senators
Full Investigation Transcript
Auto-generated transcript. May contain errors.
We think it could be a $250 to500 billion. So roughly 10% of the total federal budget. » Is it fair to say that for the past four years we are getting looted from fraudsters? » That’s 100% accurate. If you’re receiving public assistance, how do you have a Mercedes? How do you have a BMW? So we will track that down. » Today we’re here at the Treasury of the United States. It’s essentially the Bank of America as over $6 trillion essentially leaves this building each and every single year. Right now with the fraud that’s taking place here in the United States, they came up with a new fraud task force and the Treasury is doing stuff different that they haven’t done before to make sure that fraud is not taking place. Today we’re going to be interviewing with the secretary himself, Scott Basant. And this will be super important for you guys to understand what’s taking place here inside our country to prevent fraud from taking place. And right now on the website antifraudclub.com, we just released brand new hoodies right here asking where did our tax dollars go. They actually kind of go inside this building. But now you can become an anti-fraud taxpayer club member. Just go to anti-fraud club.com and you can go ahead purchase a hoodie and you can also sign up to get exclusive emails each and every single week as we report on the fraud that’s taking place here inside of our country. Now let’s get into the interview. You’re over essentially the Bank of America here. You control the money and over the treasury. Now with what you guys are doing with fraud, how are you guys going to be going about to tackle the fraud? And you guys just released a new whistleblower program as well. » Great Nick, good to have you here. And uh 20% 20% of the GDP of the US comes the through Washington DC every year. And we believe that between 250 500 billion is lost to waste, fraud, and abuse. And we think that the best way to uh stop that from happening is to keep it from getting out because once you try to call it back, the that’s very difficult. So what we are doing uh Treasury is leading an all hands-on deck effort. The vice president has the has been tasked with the fraud commission at Treasury. uh our lead effort is to integrate all the agencies and figure out where the money is going. We’re setting up a do not pay system which over time will allow us to follow the money. We will be able to follow whether it’s HHS or HUD or anywhere else. Uh where is money going to? How do we find it? Are there unusual payments? Here at Treasury, we could collect something that the banks give us called suspicious activity reports, SARS. So, can we overlay the suspicious activity reports on top of uh these unusual payments, which we’ve been able to do in Minneapolis? » And prior to this, what was the government doing to make sure that money wasn’t going to fraudsters? » Nick, unfortunately, it was the opposite under the Biden administration to get money out during COVID. Uh they took down all the guard rails and they never put them back. Bobby Kennedy said at the uh inaugural day of the anti-fraud task force that the vice president convened, he said at HHS they had 60 people charged with preventing fraud. The Biden administration, they have fired all of them. So again, the real thing is to keep the money from going out the door to the fraudsters. Very again very difficult to uh recover it. But one thing we are trying to do with recoveries is anyone wants to go to treasury.gov gov. We now have a site for whistleblowers. You can make up to 10% 30% the uh reward for the money the Treasury recovers. So nothing comes out of the pockets of the American taxpayer. It’s if you help us bring money back to taxpayers, we will pay you the uh a bounty in essence. You know, it’s kind of like when we started having all the problems with suitcases at airports, on trains, on buses. If you see something, say something. So, what we’re asking American citizens to do now is if you see something unusual, say something and we can reward you for it. » Is it fair to say that for the past four years, we were getting looted from fraudsters as there wasn’t really any guard rails to stop the fraud? » That’s 100% accurate. The American people are the most generous in the world, but American society, all societies and communities are based on trust. And if you lose trust at the very basic levels that the citizens don’t trust each other, then you can’t have a community. So we’re trying to bring that back. » So if I were to be a fraudster 3 years ago and I want to start a home healthcare business, how easy would it have been for me to get money from the federal government? » Well, » or a daycare, a learing center for instance. » Yeah. In most cases, the federal government does block grants to states. So they dump it down into states. And you know, like what you did in Minnesota was an incredible job of uncovering uh what had happened. But it’s it’s very easy because again, the way the money went out the door, no accountability. And prosecutions are very difficult too because and the fraudsters know. They know that if they keep their their thievery below a million and a half, $3 million that the the US attorneys don’t have the resources to go after them. like you know they want to have a big splashy 10 million headline. So like this whole ecosystem developed and as you discovered in Minneapolis St. Paul the they they learned how to do it. They it was very unfortunate the char the charity and state support just turned into businesses and LLC’s and boxes and empty storefronts » because in Minnesota you had these daycarees a million dollars upwards of $3.6 $6 million, but it was kind of in that area of$1 to3 million where prior they weren’t even chasing after fraud that was over $1.5 million. Now, will that fraud get chased down and those people be prosecuted? » Oh, we are in in the middle of that. We are actually going to uh the auto dealers and we’re asking to see their the financial records for their finance subsidiaries. If uh if you’re receiving public assistance, how do you have a Mercedes? decided to have a BMW. So, we will track that down. We’re also doing a much better job now because Vic, the real problem was all areas of government weren’t weren’t talking. Whether it was the agencies here in DC or the money was passed on to the states and what we’re really going to push for is transparency because it was some level of transparency that allowed you to go to all the, you know, all the daycarees. is some level of transparency that allowed you uh to go to the home health care out in LA. But, you know, I I’ve spoken to reporters from all over the country, but let let’s take New York City for example. Uh especially egregious there. Newspapers there uh mainstream journalists citizen journalists want to do the right thing, but the state or the city doesn’t want to give it out. So we are asking for transparency and I think every citizen should demand from their elected officials whether it’s a red state, a blue state, whether they are far left, far right, right down the middle that their elected officials give them transparency and we want to make sure that this money is going to where it’s supposed to go because you know as we saw the at the round table out out in Minneapolis because a lot of times when these things get shut down you know the money does doesn’t go to autism IC children like it’s supposed to where it doesn’t go to our our seniors who are supposed to be helped out. » Yeah. And essentially if the government and if the local governments and state governments don’t make the information public, nobody can actually go and do what I did in Minnesota, go out and do the fraud finding. So what does it say about these local governments, state governments when they don’t want to make that information public? Well, it says that there’s likely a daisy chain there that you know where where that there’s political patronage or political coverups. You know that there there’s some reason because everyone that you you swear an oath to your office whether it’s to your city, to your state, to your country, uh to do the best you can. And you know, if you’re enabling this, you’re you’re breaking your your vow to the people. So, you know, a a good steward of capital would want to have the money go as far as it can. You would want to help the people uh in your district in the country. So, I I think there’s a big there’s a big chance for a sea change here. And look, I I hope the Democrats on the other side of the aisle want to join us in this because, you know, imagine that we could save $500 billion. We could pay down debt. We could cut taxes. we could make sure the money gets to people who were supposed to have it. » These people were able to just steal and literally loot the American taxpayer for years on end. And there wasn’t really a program to make sure that nobody was actually giving money to fraudsters. So now the do not pay program that you guys have set up, how will that help eliminate the fraud? And like for instance, was HHS talking with the Treasury when they would see a flaw or » never never before. Never before. And the the the other vulnerability that we saw was uh TSA uh which everyone sees at the airport which is part of homeland security that if you showed up you’re not supposed to well you can but if you had more than $10,000 you’re supposed to declare it. Uh people were actually declaring it at Minneapolis St. Paul airport but those the declaration forms just went into a filing cabinet. So now we are mapping those against people who were receiving benefits and you know watch this space but I think we’re going to have some very they were trying to take the money out of the country disappears um you know overseas perhaps goes into terrorist networks but watch this space we’re going to have some big announcements on what we found going through and just matching up data you know it’s the data was always there it was just getting the departments and the systems to talk to each other » so now essentially all the departments will to work together cuz prior they were not correct. » Not not at all. Not at all. And we’re going to restaff the department uh back to their pre-COVID levels in terms of the people who were supposed to work there to stop this waste, fraud, and abuse. » And so with all this fraud, how much money do you think each year the government is giving to fraudsters or was giving? » Well, we we we think it could be $250 to$500 billion. So roughly 10% of the total federal budget. And you know like I said 20% of the whole GDP of the US that goes through Washington. So if if you take 20% then 10% and 20% 2% of our GDP was the being lost to to these fraudsters and again it’s a complete loss of trust between our citizens and at the end of the day it as we approach the 250th I think we should kind of re reaffirm every everyone wants to be a good citizen. They want to help their communities. They want to help their states. They want to uh you know be proud of the US but we can’t be proud of this. » Mhm. I think something super important you talked about now you guys are going after the places where these people are buying cars and you’re going after the banks you announced the other day. What will that look like? What does that do when you guys actually go after the banks for this fraud? Well, again, so there are the banks, there are the uh auto fi finance components, there are uh the other thing the the money store businesses in the places like Minneapolis that was wiring money out of the country. So again, uh they have to be on notice. They are supposed to notify us of suspicious activities and it’s going to be incumbent. We have something here called Finen, Financial Crimes Enforcement Network. And once we receive that those notifications, we it’s going to be on us to follow up. » So the fraudster shouldn’t be driving around in luxury anymore. » Uh well, they they shouldn’t be driving around in luxury and the people who are supposed to get the benefits shouldn’t be going without. » And if somebody does have a tip, if they do want to be a whistleblower and get a percentage of whatever that is, what’s the simplest way for someone to do that? to go to treasury.gov. Uh top of our website is an icon the in the corner. Click on that and it will take you right to the site where you can report anything. If you see something, say something. » It’s as simple as that. Seeing something, say something. You don’t need to make a viral video to help your community. You can actually just submit a tip to you guys. » Exactly. » How many tips have you guys gotten so far? » Uh we’ve gotten more than 700. » So 700 fraudsters are on the watch now. They’re they uh they they should know we’re coming for them. And again, citizen journalists, the good citizens who want to do the right thing and get a reward. » When can we expect to see some of these people get arrested and prosecuted. » Uh again, as as I said, watch this space. I think we’re going to have some big announcements very soon. » Last question. How come in Minnesota, somebody who commits fraud only is getting, for instance, they are involved in Feeding Our Future, they got one year of prison time. Do you guys have any say so over that or is that the state government? » Uh that is uh that that’s US attorney but uh what we are going to do is uh we can use uh IRS criminal investigations so they can put together cases. Uh US attorney’s office can do it but a lot of these sentencing guidelines have been very lax. So, it’s like I said, the best thing we can do is to keep the money from going out and the best thing we can do is put fear into these fraudsters that you will be caught. You will be caught and um that it’s going to stop. » Thank you very much. I do feel grateful that due to some of the work that one person in uh David for instance in Minnesota is able to do along my side we actually have been able to create change here inside the government which I think is a broader message to people here in the United States that you can make a difference for the country » and look I I I think every citizen like I said the far left for far far right right down the middle should demand transparency. » Amen. Thank you very much. Good. Thanks.