In a recent episode of The Charlie Kirk Show, Charlie Kirk and his panel of guests explored the evolving definition and tensions within the MAGA movement, particularly regarding foreign policy and the ongoing situation with Iran. The discussion, featuring Jack Posobiec, Blake Nolan, and Libby Emmons, examined how internal divisions are emerging within the conservative coalition that helped elect President Trump in 2024.
According to Kirk, the weekend revealed significant discord within conservative circles, stating “the everybody hates everybody. The e drama is through the roof and we got a a very contentious war going on in Iran.” The catalyst for this discussion was reportedly a public dispute between Megyn Kelly and Mark Levin, which President Trump himself weighed in on via Truth Social, taking Levin’s side and declaring that those opposing Levin were “not MAGA.”
Blake Nolan raised fundamental questions about the nature of the MAGA movement itself, asking whether MAGA exists as a set of principles separate from President Trump personally. According to the discussion, President Trump appears to view MAGA primarily through the lens of personal loyalty, with Blake noting that “President Trump, he ran on that slogan. He has the power to define what that slogan is.”
Jack Posobiec, identified as an “OG 2016 MAGA” leader on social media, provided historical context about the evolution of the movement. Posobiec explained that “the 2024 coalition, the coalition that Charlie worked so hard to put together, that Turning Point Action worked on, that’s different than the 2016 coalition.” He emphasized that the 2024 victory was numerically larger and included new constituencies such as libertarians, those motivated by COVID lockdowns, opponents of DEI policies, and Generation Z voters.
The panel discussed how foreign policy, particularly regarding Iran, has become the most divisive issue within the conservative movement. Andrew Kolvet noted that “the divide between the neocons and the interventionists is not just a divide, it’s a chasm.” The discussion referenced President Trump’s stated timeline of “four weeks” for resolution of the Iran situation, though specifics about military operations or strategies were not disclosed in the transcript.
Libby Emmons offered a contrasting perspective on MAGA’s definition, stating “I disagree with Trump that MAGA is Trump. I think Trump captured an ethos that was already out there.” She argued that MAGA represents “putting America first, American priorities in terms of the domestic situation, in terms of prosperity and equal access to opportunity.”
Charlie Kirk himself advocated for supporting President Trump’s decisions during this critical period, emphasizing the importance of backing American troops and hoping for success. In a notable quote included in the discussion, Kirk stated: “President Donald Trump is a man made for this moment. This is why President Trump was elected president of the United States. It’s the man in the arena that counts.”
The panel expressed concern that Democrats might exploit divisions over foreign policy to position themselves as the true “America First” party. Posobiec warned that Democrats’ “next move is going to be to say, ‘Oh, well, you guys are for foreign intervention. We are the true America first.’” This strategic positioning could potentially appeal to voters who prioritize domestic issues over foreign entanglements.
The discussion revealed ongoing tensions between those who view MAGA as synonymous with supporting President Trump’s decisions and those who see it as a broader movement based on specific policy principles. These divisions appear particularly acute regarding military intervention and foreign policy, with panel members expressing varying degrees of support for current Iran policies while unanimously backing American troops.
The conversation underscored the challenges facing the conservative movement as it attempts to maintain unity while addressing complex foreign policy decisions. With President Trump’s stated timeline for Iran resolution and ongoing military considerations, the definition and direction of MAGA remains a contentious topic within conservative circles.
Key Facts — All Alleged
| |
|---|
| Who | Charlie Kirk, Jack Posobiec, Blake Nolan, Libby Emmons, President Trump, Mark Levin, Megyn Kelly |
| Amount | Not disclosed |
| Location | Not specified |
| Program | Not specified |
| Status | Unknown |
In Charlie Kirk’s Words
“the everybody hates everybody. The e drama is through the roof and we got a a very contentious war going on in Iran”
— Charlie Kirk
“President Donald Trump is a man made for this moment. This is why President Trump was elected president of the United States. It’s the man in the arena that counts”
— Charlie Kirk
“the divide between the neocons and the interventionists is not just a divide, it’s a chasm”
— Charlie Kirk
Take Action
Contact your representative about government accountability fraud in your state.
American taxpayers deserve accountability. If this investigation concerns you, make your voice heard.
Sample Letter to Your Representative
Dear [Representative Name],
I am writing as a concerned taxpayer regarding alleged government accountability fraud in your state. Recent independent investigations have brought to light troubling patterns of waste and abuse involving taxpayer-funded programs.
I urge your office to:
- Investigate the allegations of government accountability fraud documented in this and related reports
- Support stronger oversight and accountability measures for federal and state funding
- Ensure that taxpayer dollars are protected from fraud, waste, and abuse
- Provide transparency on how these programs are being monitored
Sincerely,
[Your Name]
[Your Address]
Find Your Representative | Find Your Senators
Full Transcript
Auto-generated transcript. May contain errors.
We are joined here at the top of the hour um unusually so by Jack Pobic who’s uh going to be helping us make sense of the world after a very eventful weekend. Jack, welcome. » What up homies? » We’ve we’ve got a lot to get to here and I think Blake’s uh title for today’s show, what is MAGA? Is a is a I think it’s a really apt way to sort of frame it. Uh I was traveling, didn’t have a lot of time to keep up with it. I turned on the uh the phone and the computer on basically last night uh because somebody sent me some Oscar clips and then I started going through everything and I was like, “Holy holy cow.” Uh the everybody hates everybody. The e drama is through the roof and we got a a very contentious war going on in Iran. And I think what the best thing that we can do on this show is how to walk through this very tumultuous moment that we’re living in where I think a lot of us just want to focus on domestic issues. We want to focus on nation building at home. Unfortunately, that’s not exactly the most obvious thing for any of us to do because of so much noise that’s going around. Blake, I’m going to throw to you first uh and foremost. You you asked the question, what is MAGA? Define it for us. What is MAGA? right now in this moment with Iran, with like I said, the e drama and so much else. » Well, I mean, part of the reason the reason, you know, we we titled it that way is we did, of course, we’ve seen uh we saw friction over the weekend. We won’t get into the full details of it cuz it’s a little silly, but you know, Megan Kelly was in a fight with Mark Levvin that’s obviously rooted in the Iran stuff and, you know, obviously personality friction as well. And what happened last night was the president on Truth Social decided to weigh in on it personally and he took the side. He didn’t name Megan, but he took he supported Mark Levin. And one of the lines he said at the end of his post was basically that people who are bashing Levin going after him. Those people are not MAGA. I am is what he said. And one interpretation of MAGA is it basically is it is the people who support it is it is President Trump. President Trump, he ran on that slogan. He has the power to define what that slogan is. But does everyone feel that way? Because a lot of people have tried to articulate a MAGA agenda in terms of issues, whether that’s on immigration, whether that’s on interventionism, whether that’s on trade and a lot of other stuff. And so that’s kind of why it’s an open question because I think there is is there is there a MAGA that stands separately from the president himself? And the president himself, I think, you know, unsurprisingly, given Trump’s personality, he does mostly see it in terms of his personal branding. » Yeah. And so, Jack, I think, you know, that is one contention, right? This is something that the president has said over and over again. I am MAGA and those who kind of come at me right now, they’re not loyal to the cause. You are an OG 2016 MAGA. uh you know I would call you one of the leaders on the social media side and you’ve been that way for about a decade now. You know there does seem to be fraying at the at the at the fringes here especially about foreign policy. So what do you do when everything’s up in tumult people are confused which way to go and what to make of it. What how are you approaching this moment? » Yeah. So there’s, you know, these definitional uh questions come up a lot. And at the same time, I would also point out that, you know, MAGA, the coalition, the people who have voted for Trump, that has changed over time as well. So the 2024 coalition, the coalition that Charlie worked so hard to put together, that Turning Point Action worked on, that’s different than the 2016 coalition and the groups. Obviously, it was much more successful in 2014. 2016, you know, you can’t take anything away from the historic nature of that. It was obviously something that was unprecedented, but 2024, just in terms of sheer raw numbers, points on the board, victory was bigger. And the difference I guess I would say is that in 2024 it was this coalition that came together where instead of just you know 2016 was sort of like the anti-neocons bros and your sort of like traditional Republicans but in 2024 and of course the anti-neocons are obviously have a lot of conrnation right now and so the 2024 coalition was even broader and bigger than that because now you got Aha. Now you’ve got the libertarians. Now you of course you have the anti-neoconsans and of course there’s a lot of overlap with the with the you know libertarian crowd there as well. Um you’ve got people who were motivated by COVID. You’ve got and lockdowns. You got people who were motivated by DEI by wokeness. Uh I mean you just got so many people coming in in 2024 that inevitably there was going to be some friction points between the massive uh you know the massive parts of the massive coalition and of course now you’ve also in 24 got the zoomers on board which is like a whole different you know quotient in and of itself and that was the part that Charlie and TPUSA had worked so hard on all through those years. So, if you look at it, right, like if you were in high school when Trump first ran, you know, 2024 may have been the first time you voted or, you know, somewhere, you know, voted for president at least. And so, you know, just doing the math. So, this was like the Charlie Kirk coalition in 2024. And so, the way you work on things like this is very simple. Look, Donald Trump is the president of the United States. Donald Trump is the founder of the MAGA movement. But just like any coalition, there are going to be different elements within that movement. And so, you know, you can get caught up in these definitional games. But I do think that ultimately we’re better served by people just sort of saying like this is what I stand for. This is what I think the best policy is. And just arguing it out in those terms rather than trying to say, you know, one person is this and one person isn’t allowed to be that. It’s just I I I think that’s I think that leads to subtraction. And we all know that victory is through addition. » Yeah. I mean, I think what you’re getting at this coalitional uh truth that we need to build a coalition. There is no more contentious issue on the right. There’s just simply not than foreign policy because the divide between the neocons and the interventionists is not just a divide, it’s a chasm. And so in one sense, as soon as the Iran conflict started, there should be no surprise that this has become so contentious. President Trump said four weeks. He said he’d willing to move that timeline up or back. Uh so we we kind of are still in that that time of uncertainty. We don’t know how this is going to play out. There’s a very positive way this could play out. There’s a more negative way this could play out, which is why Charlie warned against regime change in Iran, right? We don’t know all of the ancillary side effects. We don’t know how this uh this could devolve into some sort of civil war, sectarian strike when it within Iran. The Straight of Hormuz is proving particularly tricky and difficult. We’re going to get into what the president is trying to do in the Straight of Hormuz, build a coalition uh of different countries to come in and clear up the Strait of Hormuse. We’re allowing Indian and Chinese uh I it sounds like vessels, tankers to go through the Straight of Hormuse. Yeah. Which is which is fascinating. It seems like the world is sort of flipping uh upside down in many ways, which is why a lot of us are are trying to make sense of it. We’re going to continue on this cuz I think it’s the most important conversation that we can have on the right right now. On Tik Tok, teens get over 50 built-in protections from the start. But for parents, further visibility and control of content can help create the right environment. That’s where family pairing comes in. Teens under 18 have a 60-minute screen time reminder in place. And with family pairing, parents can set their own screen time limits or even set restricted times based on what works best for their family. Family pairing lets parents link accounts to see their teens followers and who they follow and help restrict content that’s not right for them. Because peace of mind shouldn’t take guesswork. With easy to use tools like family pairing, parents can help shape the environment that makes the most sense for their teen first. That way, discovering creativity can follow. Learn more at tik tok.com/guardiansguide. Got to welcome into this conversation, President Trump’s talking about the ballroom. So, we’re going to take a moment to uh welcome in Libby Emmens. She’s the editor-inchief of the Postmillennial and Human Events. Welcome, Libby. » Thanks so much. Glad to be here, Andrew. » And we’re joined by Jack Pacific. We’re asking a question, Libby, and I’d love to get you in on this. You know, what is MAGA, right? We look across the conservative landscape and it’s a mess out there right now. And I think, you know, I’m thinking of the Kipling poem where it’s like, you know, if you can keep your head when everybody else is losing theirs. But President Trump defines it as, you know, this is he’s the founder of this movement and so get in line. He’s been very consistent to his credit about Iran over the years. A lot of us harbor skepticisms about regime change in the Middle East. So what do you make of this moment as you know everything seems to be a mess out there? » Yeah, everything does seem to be a mess out there and I disagree with Trump that MAGA is Trump. I think Trump captured an ethos that was already out there. I think he tapped into something that so many Americans were feeling. And I think MAGA has more to do with a set of values and perspectives than it does a single man. Otherwise, it would not be a movement that would continue. And that’s a movement that continued throughout Biden’s four years. And I think it’s a movement that will continue after Trump is gone. I think MAGA has to do with putting America first, American priorities in terms of the domestic situation, in terms of prosperity and equal access to opportunity in a lot of cases, you know, for Americans, which means that your schools are decent and you can go to them and attend them, which means that you’re getting a fair shake in the housing market and it’s not all being bought up by corporations, you know, which means that when you go to apply for a job or go to apply to college, your merit is what’s taken into consideration, not some random identity factors. And I think that MAGA has to be a set of values more than it can be possibly just one man. Otherwise, you can’t stand for anything, right? You can’t stand on shifting sands of perspectives and and ideas. You have to stand for something or else you know, as they say, you’ll fall for anything. Jack, want to get you back in on this because I I think by by the way, Libby, you you probably articulated uh Blake’s POV pretty well, I would think. But um I’ll let Blake answer that in just a sec. Go ahead. Go ahead, Blake. » Oh, no. No, it’s great. It’s just uh No, let’s let Jack go. Let’s look at Jack go here. » Yeah, Jack, I want to get you to respond to that, but you you know, you are the kind of foreign intel analyst. You’re you’re watching this space all the time, but yet you are domestic in your focus as well. How do you marry the two of these right now? » Yeah, that’s a great point. So, um, you know, this is obviously like I I do a lot of geopole analysis and, uh, I actually was an Navy intelligence officer, you know, and, um, you know, so this is something that’s always, you know, of a great interest when when we have these things come up. I’m like, aha, finally some everyone understands why I post maps about choke points and maritime trade routes so much. It seems like totally arcane until it everyone finds out how much it really really matters in the world. And um you know that being said, the the questions of what will be successful politically are are certainly different from how the world economy operates and how the world economics operate back and forth. And so, you know, I I’ve always said that look, I I thought that when I was in the United States Navy and when I was in the intelligence community serving as I did, that I started to get the feeling that perhaps our focus as a country was too abroad. Our focus was not enough on our own issues, on things that actually mattered to us, on things that actually affected us in our country, like the southern border, like the cartels, like uh the issues of problems and crime in our city, the issues of mass migration. All of those issues are the issues that built the MAGA movement. That’s what brought us all on board and brought us all together in 2015 and 2016, with of course the leader and singular man of that movement being Donald J. Trump. But when he came down the golden escalator, that’s exactly what he talked about. And so certainly it’s been this idea that we are going to shift the focus. And you may all you may kind of say that just analytically, I guess you could say that if there is a split anymore, it’s not within MAGA. The split is more MAGA and then America first, right? So MAGA is more we back Trump. We want Trump to be, you know, uh, you know, he’s our guy 100%. you know, we may have certain, you know, certain differences on tactics here and there, but he we’re going to stand with Trump. Then America first is this group that says we don’t want to do, you know, anything foreign. It’s domestic only. Domestic has to be in the front. And that movement is something that, interestingly enough, you start to see Democrats dipping into. You start to see Mandami talk about this. And we when we did the debate analysis, we we talked about that. uh you start to see things like Gavin Newsome talk about this where he’s saying, “Oh, I want to focus here and not abroad.” So, it’s it’s become this sort of jump ball I feel right now. And I think the Democrats are going to try their next move is going to be to say, “Oh, well, you guys are for foreign intervention. We are the true America first.” So, watch for that. » Blake, I uh invoked your name earlier. I want to give you a chance to chime in. » No, I I think that’s reasonable. I think I think they’re all on good points that especially those of us who’ve been around this movement a long time uh there is a strong sense oh MAGA we want MAGA to last beyond Trump one reason you don’t want to say MAGA is just Trump is Trump will not be around forever Trump will eventually be gone and we still want a movement that is not neocon GOP that is not George Bush GOP that is not the GOP of old but it is also very much the case that through kind of repeated trials, repeated events, MAGA has ended up being, for lack of a better term, like like Trump has oscillated in different directions. He’s caught us off guard and he’s always stuck around and the movement has really become very much how to put this. I will say President Trump has a point if he says like I am mega and to some extent the movement is basically what I say it is because he’s repeatedly defined it that way and he has kind of bashed away and like battered off every single challenger who would suggest it was anything else. And so I think Jack has a point that maybe you need to articulate another phrase like America first or or whatever you want to take this package of views so that is not 100% identical to one person. And this is the thing about the right. The right is more hierarchical. We are more inclined to basically get in line behind our guy if he says this is the right thing to do. If he says this is what we need to be doing. Uh, and so yeah, I think we, you know, it might be a good idea to have another label for the issues that we care about, » you know. So, I’ve gotten attacked, I think Blake, you and I, on this show for being, you know, I think they took a clip out of context, the internet did, and said we were we were departing from Charlie’s view on Iran. He was super anti-war. And yeah, Charlie was super anti-war. Um, but you know, we were warning against the the perils of regime change in the Middle East as well before the leadup. But Charlie, sort of in this divide that you’re you’re you’re mentioning here, Jack. It was his decision was always, listen, I worked my butt off to get President Trump elected. Even when I privately have differences of opinion, I’m going to back the guy because there’s been no other fighter that we have in the modern era that has so embodied the values that I care most about. And so I’m going to get behind him and we’re going to hope for the best. I’m going to argue his points. There’s a there’s a point to be made. And so I, you know, that’s kind of what we do here. A couple of things I can abide by. I cannot abide by not supporting our troops. I cannot abide by not wishing success on this country. I cannot abide by any of that stuff. I can’t abide abide by the the brain rot where you’re trying to scapegoat people. Uh so listen, yeah, this is these are perilous uh gut-wrenching times that make us all sort of, you know, uh wonder how it’s going to work out, but we’ve been here before with President Trump. Charlie understood this and uh he ultimately did place his trust and his support behind the president when he made tough calls. So I think we’re just sort of stuck in this this time. You know, President Trump said four to five weeks. Okay, we’re in the four to five weeks here. Buckle up, everybody. Here we go. Let’s hope this ends well and let’s pray for the success of our troops. Libby, what am I missing? » No, I agree with you on that to a certain extent. Yes, now that we’re in this war, I want us to win it. I want us to win it decisively and I want our troops to come home and be out of harm’s way. That’s a huge deal. I support our troops 100%. I do think that it’s difficult to look at this entanglement as someone who is u pretty much anti-war and come away with, you know, and come away with the perspective that this was the right thing to do at the right time. I’m not sure about that, you know, and I think time will tell and certainly history will let us know. I’m someone who marched against the Iraq war way back in 2003. Um I’m not prepared to go out and be marching against this war at this point. You know, I’ve definitely looked back at my life and said perhaps shutting down the 59th Street Bridge was not the best idea and maybe I wouldn’t do that again. I But yeah, I think that there’s I think that there’s concerns. Arguing about whether or not we should back our troops is not something we should argue about. Everyone should be backing our troops. I also think that what Jack said that this is giving the Democrats an area where they can really start to make some inroads with the American people is something that we should be watching out for because it’s hard to look at the Democrats, you know, and not see all of the things that they are also going to be advocating for. It’s continuing the American genocide of abortion. You know, there were like a million close to a million abortions I think in 2024. That’s an insane number. So if conservatives really want to make sure that they have a hold of some of these issues and can save lives in this country, we have some states that are on board with youth in Asia, this none of this stuff can go forward and so we have to be wary of all of those things. » Yeah, well said. I mean I I find the Democrats to be completely unacceptable. Uh but they are we are giving them an avenue to to to be the America first in some ways at least politically from a messaging standpoint. I don’t believe any of it. Uh I want to give a quick word uh a note. Susie Wild has been diagnosed with breast cancer. Uh President Trump put out a truth to that. So our prayers are with her for her uh health and safety. This is Charlie talking about this very exact dynamic. Cut 26. Let me tell you what President Trump has in front of him. And this is the stuff of which statements statesman’s are made. A statesman is a man at the highest moment when you have the weight of the shoulders like Churchill or Lincoln of the world on your shoulders. You act with prudence and not on ideological fervor. President Donald Trump is a man made for this moment. This is why President Trump was elected president of the United States. It’s the man in the arena that counts. But I encourage you as you view the next couple of days to not view things overly ideological. In fact, we should resist ideological fervor. Resist ideological fervor. The man in the arena. I am still on this point that yes, I I was not pro, you know, regime change in Iran. But I will back President Trump’s play here. He’s earned our trust. He is the man in the arena right now. And we have to must pray for the success of our troops and our country that this ultimately would work out in a way that would benefit America first as we try to define it. But listen, the longer this goes on, there’s no doubt that this will become more and more difficult.